SHOW: SPECIAL REPORT: WAR WITH IRAQ (11:00 PM ET) - ABC

March 21, 2003 Friday
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PETER JENNINGS

(Off Camera) Okay, many thanks, Tony. Najaf, of course, is center for scientific, for literary and for theological study by the Shiites. Everybody in the military command will know about that. On the phone from Baghdad, how interesting, on the phone with us from Baghdad, a man I do not know, a professor of political science at the University of Baghdad. Dr. Wamiz Omar Nazmi. Doctor Nazmi, can you hear me?

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI, UNIVERSITY OF BAGHDAD

Yes.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) How nice to hear your voice. I'll ask you the dumbest question in the world. How are things?

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

Well, they are, you know, the bombardment of Baghdad has been taking place over the night, and, you know, people are angry at the destruction of the, their house, this very ancient or long history city. They see no point in all this destruction and American bombardment of this old city.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Can you refer more specifically to that which you believe has been destroyed that has angered people so?

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

Well, the voice of the bombardment is really frightening. I mean, what I know that the areas which were targeted were far away from my house and where I live with my family, but the voice on certain moments seemed as if it was very, very near. So, you cannot talk about whether my house was destroyed or other houses and other buildings. After all, if somebody bombarded the White House, I don't think the Americans would say this is the house of Bush. It is the house of the American people.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) That's a, that's a very good point, sir. I, I raise it because I've just been handed a note which says that you're a former member of the Baath party, but more than 40 years ago, and that you are interested in more democracy and an end to the repression by the regime of the Shiites and the Kurds. And so I wondered whether or not you think that the targets which have been hit represent the regime or represent Iraqis as a whole?

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

Well, I will ask you a question. If, if somebody bombarded the Pentagon, would you say it is a targeted for the American regime or just a target against all Americans?

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) I think most Americans, the overwhelming number of Americans, sir, would say for all Americans. And is that your answer, vis-...- vis, what has been attacked in Baghdad tonight?

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

Yes, and what you have referred about me is quite the truth. But I don't think that war and destruction will bring democracy to the Iraqi people and the necessary civilized for the Kurds and for the Shiites and for all the population of Iraq. In fact, what the Americans are doing are destroying the whole country and I don't think at all that democracy and political reforms will appeal for this war.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) You're also described to me as someone who has openly criticized the Baath party, and the regime. Do you believe that the United States is arriving in your country to liberate you from the Baath regime?

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

Well, when the United States choose someone who has drawn us to be an international thief for the job of being a prime minister in Iraq, you call this liberation or subjugation of the Iraqi and Arab people for the will of Mr. Bush and his clique?

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) I did not know, sir, that the United States had chosen anybody to be the prime minister of Iraq. In fact, the Bush Administration says almost on an hourly, if not a daily, basis that it's up to the Iraqi people to choose their own leaders.

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

How, by, by killing the Iraqis and destroying their cities and ruining their lines of communication? Is this is the way you bring democracy to other countries?

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Can I ask you, who, sir, you had in mind of as the international thief who you think is going to be prime minister?

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

I'm talking about Mr. Ahmed Al-Chalabi.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Oh, I see.

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

And you can ask your, your Jordanian friends about his financial scandal concerning the Petra Bank in Jordan and then the MEBCO Bank in Lebanon and then the Sukovi(PH) company for investment in Switzerland.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Mister, Doctor Nazmi, I recognize Doctor Chalabi's name and, indeed, there are people in the United States who, he's the head of the Iraqi National Congress and he is supported by factions in the United States. But do you not believe that the United States will facilitate Iraqis choosing their own government for the future? After all, you didn't have the chance to choose Saddam Hussein.

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

No, we didn't have a chance, but let us put it this way. Will the Americans agree on free election which might, as a possibility, bring the Baath party to power again? Would they accept a leadership of some person in Iraq, even if he was elected like Fidel Castro? Would they accept anyone like President Nassau(PH) ? So, the choices for democracy are completely limited to a certain regime which most probably will be a puppet for the American administration.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Dr. Nazmi, I find myself in a slightly awkward position. You know, many Americans, I would say most Americans, are worried tonight that innocent civilians in your city where you live may have been harmed by an American bombing campaign today and hope that is not the case. Most Americans, I think you probably know, support the military campaign to get rid of Saddam Hussein. And you and I are having a conversation as if you are not in a city which has been badly bombed. What is life like for you at the moment?

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

Well, it is very risky. It is very dangerous. Each bombardment I have to phone my relatives and ask about their children. But up to now, nothing catastrophic has happened, to me or to my family . . .

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) And could I just ask, my apologies, well, our heart goes out to your family. I'm sure, sir, I hope you have no doubt about that whatsoever. Can I just ask you one final question. How did you and I get together on the telephone? Have you any idea?

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

No, no, not really.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) No, I don't either, but it is, an opportunity to talk to you, and I very much appreciate it, and, on behalf of all my colleagues here, and I'm sure most Americans, an overwhelming number of Americans who wish you and your family well in the days ahead and hope you come to no harm.

DOCTOR WAMIZ OMAR NAZMI

Thank you very much, that's very kind of you.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Thank you, thank you Dr. Nazmi. I don't know how that happened to be perfectly honest. Dr. Wamiz Omar Nazmi, who's a former member of the Baath party, according to this piece of paper. He left in 1961, a professor of political science at the University of Baghdad. And a pro-democracy advocate who has been tolerated by the regime, which says something. After the Gulf War the regime approached him to create an opposition party. He declined. He's openly but mildly criticized the, I have no idea how we ended up on the telephone together, but it was, indeed, an opportunity. Richard Engel, for ABC News, I think you're in your hotel, am I right?

[...]

Nightline), Jenning's producers do it to him again.>

PETER JENNINGS

(Off Camera) Okay. Thank you very much. On the phone, Brian Ross, our investigative reporter We have on phone now from Baghdad, Dr. Mohammed Motaffer Adhami, who is the dean of political science department at the University of Baghdad and member of the parliament. Dr. Adhami, can you hear me?

DR. MOHAMMED MOTAFFER ADHAMI,

MEMBER OF IRAQI PARLIAMENT

Yes, Peter.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Have you have been out on the streets today? And can you tell us something about the destruction which you have seen?

DR. MOHAMMED MOTAFFER ADHAMI

Well, actually, the whole night, there was bombings the whole night. Now, in Baghdad it's morning, it's 8:00 in the morning and the bombing started at 8:00 in the last evening, actually the bombs, actually many, many, many houses, many civilian places were hit. You know, every minute I saw, I went to the street. I tried to find some shelter and watch and every minute there was a rocket about from 8:00 to half past 9:00 to 9:50 in the evening, every minute there was a rocket on the city. I'm in the western side of the city. And I saw many rockets and also the policemen, actually, I didn't see but the policemen came and told me after the first wave stopped, told me that many houses were damaged, many family. You know, the next door, you know why I am wake now? Because the next door an old woman died because she was frightened. Because of bombing, because the walls were, you know, shaking, glass, people and specially the children, children were frightened.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Dr. Adhami, forgive me for interrupting you. Under these circumstances, we would have thought that the ministry of information, which has taken reporters and camera teams out to see damage tonight, did not take them to see any civilian areas that were damaged. In fact, they took them to presidential compounds. Have you yourself seen civilians casualties?

DR. MOHAMMED MOTAFFER ADHAMI

I have seen that woman when I was in the street, actually in my area, in my area, this is very small area on western Baghdad. I saw myself, a lot of rockets hitting the areas. I phoned my cousin and she told me that many houses fall down in her area because of these rockets. You know, what do they expect? The rockets are going on the city. Every place was hit. Many places was hit around the city and in the city.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Doctor Adhami, . . .

DR. MOHAMMED MOTAFFER ADHAMI

I haven't seen, I can't tell you, I can't tell you the places because I am just about to go out and you phone me.

PETER JENNINGS

(Off Camera) I'm glad to know that we phoned you, Doctor Adhami, because I was wondering how we got together. It is true, whatever the Bush Administration says, that there were no electrical facilities hit because the city seems to be bright with light but I'm very grateful to hear your voice on the telephone.

DR. MOHAMMED MOTAFFER ADHAMI

Yes, yes, yes. Actually, the electricity is there, the telephone is there.

PETER JENNINGS

(Off Camera) Doctor Adhami, just stay with us for one second, just wait for one second. I apologize, I'll be right back with you. This is ABC News continuing live coverage of the "War With Iraq."

graphics: War With Iraq

PETER JENNINGS

(Off Camera) Doctor Adhami, I apologize for interrupting you there, I just wanted to tell our stations around America what was going on. You were saying about the electricity, it does not appear to have gone out in any part of the city that we're aware of.

DR. MOHAMMED MOTAFFER ADHAMI

Yeah, you know why? Because they are many generators which could, you know, substitute. And, generators in the city, you got used to that. But, I tried to phone, you know, my relatives outside Baghdad. I couldn't.

PETER JENNINGS

(Off Camera) Do you, you're a member of parliament. Does this mean you're a member of the Ba'ath party?

DR. MOHAMMED MOTAFFER ADHAMI

Yes.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) And do you believe that the United States has come to your country to save the country or to harm the country?

DR. MOHAMMED MOTAFFER ADHAMI

Well, is this saving the country, bombing every city in Iraq? Killing the people? For no reason? Only to occupy the country?

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Do you believe, . . .

DR. MOHAMMED MOTAFFER ADHAMI

This is, you know, this is actually, I believe now, this is a crime. And they are behaving, the American Administration is behaving according to the law of jungle.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Doctor Adhami, you, . . .

DR. MOHAMMED MOTAFFER ADHAMI

So the people are dying.

PETER JENNINGS

(Voice Over) Doctor Adhami, again, I apologize for interrupting. I think Americans believe that there are millions of Iraqis who would be free, who would be happy to live free from the leadership of President Saddam Hussein. Do you believe that to be the case?

DR. MOHAMMED MOTAFFER ADHAMI

Well, let me tell you something, that the only period that Iraq shows development was in these 30 years we live. Before that, during the British occupation, Iraqis were suffering. And the British were stealing our oil. It seem that now, the Americans want to do the same. So I think, you know, that's why, that's why now if you go to the street, you won't find any disturbance. All the people stick together and all the people saying, Allah Akbar, when they saw the rockets hitting their city.

PETER JENNINGS

(Off Camera) Thank you, Doctor Adhami, I really appreciate hearing from you this evening. A member of the Ba'ath party, member of the Iraqi parliament. Allah Akbar, God is greatest, in Arabic as you know. And to be honest, sitting in this newsroom for the last many hours, I'm not quite sure how we get people on the phone. But we've had two phone calls like that tonight and the very least they are an admonition that if Americans end up in Baghdad, perhaps not everybody is going to welcome them. We'll continue with "Nightline" in just a minute.